Interview with Oliver Tambo to New Times, 05 January 1980, Moscow

Question: How do you assess the situation in southern Africa after the Zimbabwe Patriotic Front has signed the ceasefire agreement?

TAMBO: The liberation war in Zimbabwe is part and continuation of the liberation wars which the peoples of southern Africa have waged against colonialism, racism and apartheid since the early 1960s. During these years the peoples have become united in the awareness that they are fighting for a common cause and against a common enemy. The revolutionary experience has heightened their political consciousness and clarified their definition of the enemy.

In these circumstances the ceasefire agreement marks a strategic victory for the peoples of the region, for all progressive forces. But the enemy has not been vanquished. Therefore the struggle of the peoples continues. It is directed against the last remaining colonial, racist and apartheid power, the South African regime, which must be dislodged from Namibia and crushed in South Africa.

Attention will naturally be centred now on the preparation of elections in Zimbabwe. The imperialists, headed by Britain, are running a campaign to portray the ceasefire agreement as a signal of the end of the revolutionary struggle in southern Africa and a return to the policy of a "voluntary" improvement by the racists of the life of the oppressed and exploited masses.

This campaign is part of a multi-pronged imperialist offensive in southern Africa, with two strategic objectives: to maintain the status quo in South Africa and to strike at the revolutionary gains in Mozambique and Angola. The situation calls for maximum vigilance by all anti-imperialists.

Q: How would you comment on South African military involvement in Zimbabwe?

TAMBO: South African involvement in Zimbabwe dates back to the early days of Ian Smith`s regime and the opening shots in the armed struggle for the liberation of Zimbabwe. This struggle started in 1966, and within a year thousands of South African troops were required to save the Smith regime from collapse. South African military involvement increased from year to year. Tens of thousands of Zimbabweans, not to mention many Mozambicans, Zambians and Botswana citizens, lost their lives because of active South African involvement in the war on the side of the Smith regime.

The presence of South African troops in Zimbabwe is consistent with Pretoria`s role of gendarme protecting its own interests and the interests of imperialism as a whole. The regime brazenly declared recently that if in the forthcoming elections the people of Zimbabwe voted the Patriotic Front into power, it would use armed force to overthrow the Patriotic Front government and install a puppet cabinet headed by Bishop Muzorewa. This provocative stand only reinforces the fact that the struggle for total and genuine independence is far from being over and that we have to continue it against South African and international imperialism.

Q: The repressions are being intensified in South Africa. How would you comment on the case of James Mange, an activist of the African National Congress, and other similar cases?

TAMBO: The trials of those who are fighting against apartheid in South Africa have been taking place in large numbers, day after day and year after year. However, even now arrests, torture and long terms of imprisonment have only served to intensify the movement for the overthrow of the racist system. The determination of the people to win freedom is irrepressible.

James Mange and his eleven colleagues were charged with high treason (not with "terrorism", as usual) so that it could be easier to pass death sentences on them. Such a stance on James Mange testifies to legalised assassination of the political opponents of the regime. The African National Congress has called on the international community to raise its voice of protest to prevent the assassination of James Mange by the Botha regime.

Q: How would you comment on the recent statement by South African Foreign Minister Roelof Botha that "undignified forms of racial discrimination" should end but that power sharing was not the answer to the country`s problems?

TAMBO: Racial discrimination can never be dignified or acceptable. The concept of power sharing between white and black is racist. We make no demand for a share. We are fighting for the transfer of political and economic power to the entire people of South Africa, irrespective of race or colour. Such is our reply to the problems of South Africa. Mr. Botha should make a careful study of the Freedom Charter proclaimed by the African National Congress.

Q: What forms of struggle are being used by the African National Congress for the liberation of the people of South Africa?

TAMBO: In our struggle for the overthrow of the racist regime in South Africa we combine mass political activity, industrial action by our working class and armed operations by our people`s army, Umkhonto we Sizwe (The Spear of the Nation). We have, however, always recognised that the people united in a broad political movement are the key to success at the present stage of our struggle.

Therefore, the task of mobilising the masses is, in our opinion, both primary and continuous. We are stepping up our work among the various classes and social groups. Political action consists in daily challenging and resisting the racist authorities and their policy of preserving the regime of political oppression and economic enslavement of the majority of the people. The most powerful section of our movement is the working class consisting mainly of blacks. In the past few years it has more than once demonstrated its strength and militancy. Our organising and political activity also extends to the countryside, where the people have been herded into bantustans which the racists are attempting to pit against one another.

The mobilisation of all oppressed and exploited people for active resistance to the racist regime is the basis for the armed struggle which was decided upon by the people themselves. Over the years we have been extending the scale of armed operations by units of Umkhonto we Sizwe. The future victories of the peoples of Zimbabwe and Namibia will make possible an escalation of the patriots` armed operations also in South Africa.

Q: World opinion was alarmed by the news of South Africa`s atom bomb test. How may the possession of nuclear weapons by Pretoria influence the situation in Africa?

TAMBO: There seem to be some doubts in the Western press as to whether the South African regime really tested an atom bomb. These doubts are not justified. There is an abundance of irrefutable evidence of the racist regime`s intention and capacity to develop a nuclear bomb. Such a weapon in the hands of Pretoria would have been a means of blackmail of the African countries and would have enabled it to commit aggression with impunity. Furthermore, it would have justified the inclusion of South Africa in NATO, which would have extended the sphere of operation of this bloc to the Southern Hemisphere. In terms of the struggle of the African peoples for political and economic independence, including the struggle of the South African people, the possession of the atom bomb by the South African racists will not be a deterrent. This struggle will continue.

Q: It is known that such countries as Britain, the United States, West Germany, France and Israel maintain economic and military ties with South Africa despite the United Nations resolutions. How would you comment on this?

TAMBO: In countless resolutions and appeals and in the course of mass demonstrations the international community has addressed itself to each of these countries, calling for the political, economic, military and cultural isolation of South Africa in the interests of peace and security in Africa and throughout the world. But these countries have been defiant of world opinion and the United Nations, and utterly contemptuous of the pleas of the immediate victims of the racist crimes. Worse, they have contributed generously to the strengthening of the Pretoria regime economically and militarily, giving it the capacity to reinforce the structure of apartheid and exercise direct military interference in Rhodesia. Do the Western powers really think that their interests in South Africa would be saved by setting southern Africa aflame? It remains doubtful whether the Western interests would survive the flames.

It is vitally important that the Western countries which have chosen to ally themselves with the racists should be subjected to pressure designed to secure their disengagement from involvement on the side of the hated and criminal white minority regime.

Q: What is your comment on the "constellation of States" which the South African leaders want to create?

TAMBO: The growing power of the liberation movement, backed by the progressive forces of the world, has long forced the racist leaders to recruit allies to save their doomed system.

Ex-Premier Hendrik Verwoerd had conjured up what he called a Commonwealth of southern Africa. Another ex-Premier, John Vorster, following the rapid collapse of fascist Portugal with its African empire, worked desperately to forge an alliance with independent African States on the basis of what he termed "detente". The present racist Premier, Pieter Botha, refers to a "constellation of States". It was originally envisaged that the "constellation" would bring all the countries of southern Africa, including Zaire, under the political and military dominance of Pretoria. Their role, according to Mr. Botha, would be that of defenders of the white minority regime from the peoples fighting against racism and for their national and social liberation. The independent African States refused to play such a role. The idea of a "constellation" has now become confined to the openly puppet creations of the regime - bantustans within South Africa. Mr. Botha would like to include an independent Zimbabwe and also Namibia in the "constellation". Hence his declared intention to use armed force to keep the Patriotic Front out of power in Zimbabwe. Pretoria is planning to get dominant positions in various spheres of life in Zimbabwe that would enable it to break out of the international isolation and its growing encirclement by the revolutionary forces of liberation. In this scheme Mr. Botha is working in intimate collaboration with the British government. However, this plan has no better chance of success than the previous abortive projects of a similar kind.

Q: What is the role of the solidarity of progressive forces in the struggle of the people of South Africa?

TAMBO: The role is very great. The present situation in South Africa, in which the racist oppressive regime has to reckon with the strength of the liberation movement led by the African National Congress and its allies, is a direct product of international solidarity with our struggle. Such solidarity is displayed by the countries bordering on South Africa, other members of the Organisation of African Unity, many progressive parties and organisations, our friends in different parts of the world.

Our successes have been made possible by the victories of our comrades-in-arms who have also relied on international solidarity. In this connection the ceasefire agreement signed in Lancaster House, London, is sufficient to demonstrate the positive role of the solidarity of the socialist countries. This solidarity enabled the people of Zimbabwe led by the Patriotic Front and the Namibian people led by SWAPO effectively to resist the racists, whom the Western countries are supplying with modern weaponry. Likewise, the staunchness of Angola, Zambia, Mozambique and Botswana in the face of unprovoked aggressive actions has placed the peoples of southern Africa firmly in the ranks of committed internationalists. From: New Times, Moscow, No. 2/80, January 1980. Mr. Tambo was interviewed by Sergei Petukhov, correspondent of New Times, in Lusaka.